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Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2023

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Girls' Generation Necr0manceraclh3mist (talk) 00:52, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. They are already listed in the article – what are you looking to have changed? Tollens (talk) 01:10, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Little mix

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Little mix’s record sale have being confirmed to over 75 million can it be updated https://www.billboard.com/music/pop/little-mix-leigh-anne-solo-single-dont-say-love-stream-1235356298/amp/ Coros26 (talk) 03:39, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Deltaspace42 (talk • contribs) 18:16, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Undone: someone already requested this edit and the response was that the consensus needs to be established first. See the section above. Deltaspace42 (talk • contribs) 18:25, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Is this able to be changed yet? 213.31.131.47 (talk) 21:46, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Blackpink sales

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Hi. I added Blackpink to the list of best-selling girl groups, having sold 6,766,044 albums and 13,786,046 singles, for a total of 20,552,090 sales, putting them above the thresholds required to enter the main table. This number has been disputed by @Solidandrewsister who assured me the numbers "won't add up", and @Kenquenito, who said that the singles do not in fact add up to 13,786,046 but rather to 7.8 million. In this reference is all the sources I used with comments for the math used for the sales, which shows that the singles add up to 13,786,046.[1]

Now, the bulk of the single sales come from 5 download certifications by the Korea Music Content Association (KMCA), who produces the official Circle Chart (formerly Gaon Chart) to track South Korean songs and album performances. For all songs released after 2018, the KMCA certifies songs Platinum once they have reached the threshhold of 2.5 million downloads. "Ddu-Du Ddu-Du" and "Forever Young", both released in 2018, were certified Platinum on April 11, 2019 and December 12, 2019, respectively, for surpassing 2.5 million downloads each as shown in this reference.[2] This takes us to 5 million single sales already.

Now, for songs released prior to 2018, they are not eligible to be certified. However, Gaon Chart regularly posted the Gaon Observation Board that record songs that have surpassed 2.5 million downloads and/or 100 million streams in South Korea. "Playing with Fire" and "As If It's Your Last" were the first two songs to be recognized for surpassing 2.5 million downloads. In The Gaon Observation Board posted February 26, 2019, the author lists all songs per artist that have either reached 100 million streams or 2.5 million downloads.[3] The image contained within this page at this URL shows the songs that have surpassed either certification threshold. In this case, it shows in the first column that three songs had passed the streaming certification threshold of 100 million streams, which are the songs "Playing with Fire", "As If It's Your Last", and "Ddu-Du Ddu-Du". In the second column, it denotes all songs that have surpassed the download certification threshold of 2.5 million downloads, which are the first two songs "Playing with Fire" and "As If It's Your Last". Though they are not eligible to be officially certified as pre-2018 songs, the KMCA denotes on this board that these songs have also surpassed the threshold of 2.5 million downloads. This adds another 2.5 million single sales per song and 5 million for both to the count. Add that to our previously noted 5 million, we are now at 10 million single sales.

The Gaon Chart continued to post updates on the Gaon Observation Board for songs that newly surpassed either 2.5 million downloads or 100 million streams. On the update posted on November 28, 2019, Gaon listed "Whistle" as one of the songs that had just surpassed 2.5 million downloads in South Korea, as seen in this link.[4] On the page, "Whistle" is specifically listed as a song that has surpassed 2.5 million downloads on the image linked in this URL. This adds anothr 2.5 million single sales, taking us to 12.5 million out of the 13,786,046 single sales reported, and much higher than the conclusion of 7.8 million by @Kenquenito.

The download certifications as well as the download thresholds for pre-2018 songs by Gaon Music Chart have been used regularly on Wikipedia and treated as reliable. Pages that use them as a source for sales include major K-pop groups such as BTS singles discography, Twice singles discography, and Red Velvet discography, as examples. I'd like to ask which part of these download sales cannot be seen as reliable, especially since when on this very page (List of best-selling girl groups), Twice on the same table also uses Gaon observation notes (as well as Oricon charts and Billboard charts) as a reference, which are the very same sources used for single sales here. Why can they be treated as reliable for one group but not another? I am willing to work together to find and replace any sources that are not reliable, so let me know if there is anything wrong, and we can make the changes here. Flabshoe1 (talk) 14:50, 2 January 2024 (UTC) Flabshoe1 (talk) 14:50, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tagging @Nkon21 and @Paper9oll for their input as other experienced users generally involved in the same editing area. Flabshoe1 (talk) 15:02, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Flabshoe1 calculation is correct to me unless I failed my maths which I don't so. Did I get lost in the calculator mess, I don't think so also as I punched the figures into excel. In addition, I can see that the sourcing is similar on other South Korean groups listed here hence unless there is some unknown reasons which I don't see any indications of such, I don't see why the sourcing is problematic. — 🎉🎆 Paper9oll 🎆🎉 (🔔 • 📝) 16:16, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes your calculations are correct and very right, in any other case if they are going with that logic to remove BP then Twice should be removed as well, cause their sales and sourcing were put in the same way as you did for BP's, so they have no excuse. Lightlylove (talk) 21:13, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, could you provide alternative sources for the claimed 2.5 million sales of "Playing with Fire" and "As If It's Your Last"? I refrained from including them because the information originated from the opinion section of Circle Chart. The website's news tab is categorized into six sections: main news, opinion (where you sourced your information), albums, Kpop now, performances, and issues.
The absence of certifications for these songs on Circle Chart, along with the fact that the figures are derived from the opinion column rather than factual data, may make the sales numbers appear unrealistic, not just to me but also to some readers. I hope you understand my point of view. Thanks. Solidandrewsister (talk) 06:46, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The absence of certifications for these songs on Circle Chart is solely due to the fact that pre-2018 songs do not get certified, but Circle Chart (or formerly called Gaon Chart) releases official data for when pre-2018 songs pass the streaming or download certification thresholds of 100 million streams or 2.5 million downloads respectively. I'd like to point out that this very page uses Gaon-published data for sales of pre-2018 songs (and therefore uncertified) for Twice's sales, so this has never posed a problem before.
Now, I'd like to point out that the articles sourced being under the "Opinion" section does not mean that these numbers are "opinions" and not factual data. The opinion section on the website refers to news articles that consist of analysis by Circle Chart reporters and the conclusion that any article in this section cannot be treated as factual data is a complete misunderstanding and not supported by any actual text on the website. The Gaon's Observation Notes, which reports pre-2018 songs that have passed the download certification threshold, is clearly established as being based on actual numbers.
Once again, I'd like to point out that on this very page, the reference for Twice's sales includes three different uses of the Gaon's Observation Notes as sources, all of which are under the "opinion" tab. I've included these three references at the end of this sentence.[5][6][7] As you can see on all three sources, all of them fall under the "opinion" tab. These three sources show the six songs "Like Ooh-Ahh", "Cheer Up", "TT", "Knock Knock", "Likey", and "Heart Shaker" (all of which are pre-2018 and therefore uncertified) as having surpassed 2.5 million downloads. Therefore, 15 million of 42 million of Twice's reported sales in this table come from the very same source that you claim is unreliable.
It has long been established by consensus and common practice that these Gaon's Observation Notes, despite being under the "opinion" tab, are reliable as well as accepted for use on this page and on the discography pages of every other K-pop group, so I fail to see how this source can be seen as unreliable for one group specifically. If anyone would like to chime in, please feel free @Solidandrewsister @Paper9oll @Lightlylove @Nkon21. Flabshoe1 (talk) 20:07, 4 January 2024 (UTC) Flabshoe1 (talk) 20:07, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No objections to the latest comment made by Flabshoe1. As I have stated earlier, I don't see why the sourcing is problematic to begin with. I also asked for any prior discussion(s) that have set an exception for example Twice's sourcing here of which, I don't see any replies on such. Hence to me, I looks a case of mistake revert otherwise is simply WP:OWN issue. In conclusion, I can see that there is already a clear consensus here that there are no issues for the sourcing nor the counting/figures hence I don't see the need to have WP:RFC. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:23, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, since there is a consensus of there being no issue with the sourcing and numbers, I believe it's acceptable to go ahead and add the sales that were reverted. It looks like this may be a case of WP:OWN by the reverters. Flabshoe1 (talk) 21:11, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ 6.76 million album sales: 6,766,044 = 6,305,957 (South Korea) + 225,487 (Japan) + 234,600 (US); South Korea album sales: 6,305,957 = 230,656 (2018) + 375,338 (2019) + 1,706,814 (2020) + 432,337 (2021) + 2,825,311 (2022) + 735,501 (2023)
    • 2018년 Album Chart [2018 Album Chart]. Gaon Music Chart (in Korean). Korea Music Content Association. Archived from the original on January 11, 2019. Retrieved January 11, 2019.
    • Kim, Jinwoo (December 23, 2019). 2019 앨범 판매량 리뷰 [2019 Album Sales Review]. Circle Chart (in Korean). Korea Music Content Association. Archived from the original on December 30, 2023. Retrieved December 30, 2023.
    • Kim, Jinwoo (December 21, 2020). 앨범 판매량 리뷰 (2020) [Album Sales Review (2020)]. Circle Chart (in Korean). Korea Music Content Association. Archived from the original on December 30, 2023. Retrieved December 30, 2023.
    • Kim, Jinwoo (December 20, 2021). 앨범 판매량 리뷰 (2021) [Album Sales Review (2021)]. Circle Chart (in Korean). Korea Music Content Association. Archived from the original on December 30, 2023. Retrieved December 30, 2023.
    Japan album sales: 225,487 = 60,668 (Blackpink) + 11,978 (Square Up) + 22,464 (Blackpink in Your Area) + 29,040 (Kill This Love) + 66,862 (The Album) + 34,475 (Born Pink); Japan physical sales for Blackpink: 60,668 = 39,100 + 13,123 + 8,445 Japan physical sales for Square Up: 6,419 = 3,890 + 2,529 Japan digital sales for Square Up: 5,559 = 3,915 + 1,644 Japan physical sales for Blackpink in Your Area: 22,464 = 20,861 + 1,603 Japan physical sales for Kill This Love: 8,846 = 4,055 + 3,054 + 1,737 Japan digital sales for Kill This Love: 3,531 = 2,548 + 983 Japan physical sales for Kill This Love -JP Ver.-: 15,836 = 11,971 + 2,616 + 1,249 Japan digital sales for Kill This Love -JP Ver.-: 827 Japan physical sales for The Album: 28,554 Japan digital sales for The Album: 3,929 = 1,863 + 1,074 + 569 + 423 Japan physical sales of The Album -JP Ver.-: 34,379 = 24,290 + 4,680 + 2,647 + 1,786 + 976 Japan physical sales for Born Pink: 31,385 = 23,595 + 7,790 Japan digital sales for Born Pink: 3,090 = 1,599 + 777 + 404 + 185 + 125 US album sales: 234,600 = 7,000 (Square Two) + 9,100 (Kill This Love) + 117,000 (The Album) + 101,500 (Born Pink); US sales for Square Two: 7,000 US sales for Kill This Love: 9,100 US sales for The Album: 117,000 = 81,000 + 19,000 + 17,000 US sales for Born Pink: 101,500 = 75,500 + 26,000 13.78 million single sales: 13,786,046 = 13,348,556 (South Korea) + 58,090 (Japan) + 208,400 (US) + 171,000 (Global); South Korea single sales: 13,348,556 = 605,048 ("Boombayah") + 243,508 ("Stay") + 2,500,000 ("Playing with Fire") + 2,500,000 ("As If It's Your Last") + 2,500,000 ("Whistle") + 2,500,000 ("Ddu-Du Ddu-Du") + 2,500,000 ("Forever Young"); 240,789 ("Boombayah") 128,111 ("Boombayah") 90,804 ("Boombayah") 79,468 ("Boombayah") + 182,138 ("Stay") 65,876 ("Boombayah") + 61,370 ("Stay") 2,500,000 ("Playing with Fire") + 2,500,000 ("As If It's Your Last")
    • C., Daniel (February 26, 2019). GAON′s 관찰노트 [GAON′s Observation Notes]. Circle Chart (in Korean). Korea Music Content Association. Archived from the original on December 30, 2023. Retrieved December 30, 2023.
    2,500,000 ("Whistle")
    • C., Daniel (November 28, 2019). GAON′s 관찰노트 [GAON′s Observation Notes]. Circle Chart (in Korean). Korea Music Content Association. Archived from the original on December 30, 2023. Retrieved December 30, 2023.
    2,500,000 ("Ddu-Du Ddu-Du") + 2,500,000 ("Forever Young") Japan single sales: 58,090 = 29,388 ("Ddu-Du Ddu-Du") + 8,604 ("Kill This Love") + 11,106 ("How You Like That") + 7,438 ("Pink Venom") + 1,554 ("Shut Down"); Japan physical sales for "Ddu-Du Ddu-Du": 29,388 = 24,385 + 2,878 + 1,160 + 965 Japan digital sales for "Kill This Love": 8,604 = 4,372 + 4,232 Japan digital sales for "How You Like That": 11,106 = 5,506 + 5,600 Japan digital sales for "Pink Venom": 7,438 = 3,236 + 2,674 + 1,528 Japan digital sales for "Shut Down": 1,554 US single sales: 208,400 = 113,000 + 5,000 + 4,000 + 7,000 + 11,000 + 7,000 + 7,000 + 16,400 + 23,000 + 11,000 + 4,000; 113,000 (Square Two songs) + 5,000 ("As If It's Your Last") 4,000 ("As If It's Your Last") 7,000 ("Ddu-Du Ddu-Du") 11,000 ("Kiss and Make Up") 7,000 ("Kill This Love") 7,000 ("Sour Candy") 16,400 ("How You Like That") 23,000 ("Ice Cream") 11,000 ("Pink Venom") 4,000 ("Shut Down") Global single sales: 171,000 = 70,000 (The Album songs) + 46,000 ("Pink Venom") + 55,000 (Born Pink songs); The Album songs: 70,000 "Pink Venom": 46,000 = 36,000 + 7,000 + 3,000 Born Pink songs: 55,000
  2. ^ "Certification - Download". Circle Chart (in Korean). Korea Music Content Association. Archived from the original on December 30, 2023. Retrieved December 30, 2023.
  3. ^ C., Daniel (February 26, 2019). GAON′s 관찰노트 [GAON′s Observation Notes]. Circle Chart (in Korean). Korea Music Content Association. Archived from the original on December 30, 2023. Retrieved December 30, 2023.
  4. ^ C., Daniel (November 28, 2019). GAON′s 관찰노트 [GAON′s Observation Notes]. Circle Chart (in Korean). Korea Music Content Association. Archived from the original on December 30, 2023. Retrieved December 30, 2023.
  5. ^ Daniel, C. (September 12, 2018). "GAON′s 관찰노트" [Gaon's Observation Notes]. Gaon Music Chart (in Korean). Korea Music Content Association. Archived from the original on September 13, 2018. Retrieved September 12, 2018.
  6. ^ Daniel, C. (September 20, 2019). "GAON′s 관찰노트" [Gaon's Observation Notes]. Gaon Music Chart (in Korean). Korea Music Content Association. Archived from the original on October 5, 2019. Retrieved September 20, 2019.
  7. ^ "GAON′s 관찰노트" [Gaon's Observation Notes]. Gaon Music Chart (in Korean). Korea Music Content Association. March 18, 2020. Archived from the original on March 19, 2020. Retrieved March 19, 2020.

The Go-Go's

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The page for lead singer Belinda Carlisle states that the Go-Go's are the best selling all female rock band of all time. And they didn't make this list? 2600:1700:D2E0:7E70:ADEB:BF5E:4C2:4520 (talk) 00:31, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Let's discuss this new source!

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I found something very shocking in one of Cosmopolitan's articles, we always talk about how third-party sources are so important to analyze record sales, so i thought we'd just talk a little about the credibility of this new information, in 2022 Cosmopolitan dedicated an article to the K-pop girl group Twice which are on this list setting at 42 million physical sales sold which now i believe is higher cause Twice has superpassed 17 or 18 million albums sold.


The article states that the group has "collectively sold more than 100 millions albums worlwide" which is a figure that has never been given to any other K-pop group aside from Girls' Generation and BTS, now the thing with this is not that it is a completely inflated-hard to believe figure since the 42 million claim is only from their sales in South Korea and Japan, and no other country is counted not even in the United States, but that with stream and CSPC sales it is clear that they may superpass 100 million record sales or even more but the thing is that i'd like to know whether this source can be consider reliable or that if we can use it to determine what is the real figure of their sales apart from South Korea and Japan which i don't think is that high but many sources variate. https://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/music/a40477145/twice-k-pop-what-to-know/Lightlylove (talk) 22:40, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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